A frank discussion about firearms from U.S. Marines

31Jul12

I asked this question to the Linkedin group of Marines I belong to…Some of their answers will surprise you!…

“Do you think tougher gun laws are the answer to prevent such tragedies as what happened in Colorado? What are some other preventive suggestions to such maddening violence?”

 

Ken Warren • The only people effected by gun laws are law abiding citizens. Criminals do not adhere to any gun laws.

Al Bagocius • Ken- Thanks for commenting! Had only one person in the movie audience thought outside the box & closed shut the emergency door the murderer propped open, it may have foiled his plans. I think we have become desensitized to responding to & reporting suspicious behavior as we have grown to be expected to be politically correct.

Rick Sivernell • SgtMaj Warren, crimminals do not care for you or anyone else, it is the me me me group.
The 2nd Admendment is to ensure the saftey of the population for foreign and domestic people who wish to do harm. Sad enough, it could be our own government. This is what the soicalist/commumist want, no weapons for the people to be able to defend or stop them, if they could get everything they wanted. Change America to US of Socialist States of America. One major problem that they have not realized, just too damn many Marines in this country, who will not let that happen. I also sure that those Navy Army Air Force Coast Guards and Reserve Guardmen veterns will be there too.

Rick Sivernell
USMC (RVN)

Ronnie Ingram • No, I do not believe you can stop crazy people with laws anymore than you can stop stupid people with more laws . I would think that after 9/11 every facility, especially ones that has large audiences such as movie theaters and malls would have some decent form of security.There was a law probiding weapons in the theater, Of course the nutjob could have cared less.I know a lot of Marines that have security experience ,and some are seeking work. I think more trained security specialists in common places that large numbers gather is the answer not more laws.

Richard Madden • Let everyone carry, not just criminals and sociopaths who could give a hoot about illegal possession laws. Then, restrict marksmanship training to law abiding citizens. (after passing a mental competency exam)

Ronnie Ingram • I am all for carrying legally, but unfortuanately there are going to be some places you will not be allowed to carry a weapon , like a bank, or a bar , or in most cases a dark place like a movie theater,. So there is no way to totally eliminate a threat. If someone is crazy enough and resourceful enough he or she will find a way.. The gun was not the problem, the nut behind the gun was. More guns is not the solution , less nuts behind guns is.I do not see why both Pro and anti Gun actvists can not agree on making a system that prevents psychos , not law abiding citizens , but psycho’s from getting weapons.

Printice Robinson • He mailed his PLAN to his psychiatrist. It was never received for this tragedy to be prevented. He entered through an emergency exit.

It was just bad timing for all those who were lost or injured.

Al Bagocius • Thanks for commenting Printice…As in several recent outburts of madness and murder, the weakest link is the lack of common sense of those who were most capable of stopping it.

Rooney Maj David M • Gentlemen, the truth about what happens when you give everyone a weapon is proven in Kennesaw, GA (where I attended school) —where gun ownership is mandatory for every head of household, per ordinance [Sec 34-21], which states: (a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the city, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the city limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore, and (b) Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony.”

Kennesaw—contrary to what the sensationalist media would have you believe – is not the Wild West, but rather was voted by Family Circle magazine as one of the nation’s “10 best towns for families.” The city website also claims Kennesaw ““has the lowest crime rate in Cobb County”—this in one of the most populated counties in Georgia. In fact, from 1982 through 2009, Kennesaw, with a population of just under 25,000, had only one murder, in 2007. Compare this to gun-free New York City, which in a recent 25-year period had more than 15,000 murders—2, 245 in 1990 alone—while Kennesaw, Georgia, had 1.

Why are we not seeing more information such as this?

Ronnie Ingram • Thats true Major , but even in Georgia there are places you can not carry, so even in kennesaw where every homeowner owns a weapon, you could still have a psycho break the law by bringing a weapon in a forbidden area. and put law abiding citizens at risk who are unarmed in that forbidden area as the law requires.

Georgia law

Firearm regulations are uniform throughout the state, and a firearms permit is valid throughout the state, in all areas other than in a few specially-defined areas. These specially-defined prohibited areas include:

In a government building
In a courthouse
In a place of worship
In a state mental health facility
In a bar, unless the owner of the bar permits the carrying of weapons by license holders
On the premises of a nuclear power facility
Within 150 feet (46 m) of any polling place
In any school building or on school grounds.

Eduardo Lyon • While I agree that there are still 8 areas in Georgia that restrict the right to enter with arms, given that all of the areas surrounding these weapons-free zones are NOT weapons-free in Kennesaw, this alone should give most non-suicidal individuals pause before contemplating assault with firearms or other weapons – before seeking to rain death on an innocent population.

Ken Warren • The problem we cannot forget is the deranged people are not thinking about
where they can and cannot take firearms. Look at the states that have open
carry laws; the crime rate is 1/3 than the majority of the rest of the
country. Chickensh+t murderers don’t normally attack a group that they
know will fire back. Think about how many people would have been saved if
just one person that was licensed to carry employed their legal firearm
right after that lunatic opened up. I would have been proud to end that
turd and save many other lives in the process, but unfortunately the masses
think restricting the ability to defend ourselves is more prudent then
holding criminals accountable. The really insane problem is he will get
off due to being insane. One bullet would have saved us all a lot of tax
dollars. Semper Fidelis.

Sent from Blackberry

Semper Fidelis

SgtMaj Ken Warren

Frank Hibbard • I can understand a handgun to protect a family etc. But what the hell does anyone other than Military or Law Enfoorcement need with a Assault Rifle? There was a another major asshole in waiting arrested today with like 10 assault rifles,after he said he would attack his former employer workplace. (Claimed he was a Joker)

I would be willing to bet that most Police Officers, would like a Assault Rifle Ban, as they who are truly the front lines against these evil assholes, often could find themselves out gunned in a bad situation.

Last week I saw on CNN or MSNBC there was a Gun Runner who would pay people in Mississippi to buy assault weapons, which he then shipped to Chicago for Gang use. Does this appeal to any of you, because I truly find this disturbing?

Now I quess by now you know I fully support a National Assault Gun Ban.

Cory Steiner • Politicians implement so-called “assault” bans on the basis of cosmetic features. What many think are assault weapons were already properly regulated since 1934.
On a side note, 10 out of 10 criminals polled support gun bans.

Ken Warren • Frank,
Its not the Assault weapons that do the damage. It is the, as you put it
“assholes” who own them that cause problems. Let me say for the record
that not all of us that legally own assault weapons are assholes. Many of
us pay the federal and state taxes and license fees to own them because we
like to collect and recreationally shoot them. Remember weapons in a
criminal or psycho’s hand is bad news. A weapon in a law abiding citizens
hand is not. Don’t be a hater just because some use assault weapons as the
tool of their madness. If they went around killing people with a roofer’s
hammer woould you put a ban on those as well?

Sent from Blackberry

Semper Fidelis

SgtMaj Ken Warren

Doug Bridwell • As we all know Guns don’t kill people ….. it is only the vehicle .

Frank Hibbard • I did not mean to insult you Sgt. Major, but I do feel very strongly about a assAult gun ban, the only time even you should have one is while in uniform doing your duty. Off duty get a target rifle.

I saw another story on ~CNN about the potential Copycat to the Aurora. He was a goverment contractor, so he faces federal charges. He must have had a clearence of some kind, and it looked like he had 8-1- assault rifles.

Please tell me why anybody needs a 8-10 assault rifles, let alone 1?

Ken Warren • Because some people like to collect and shoot different weapons and by the
way assault rifles are excellent target rifles.
You have obviously never enjoyed long range shooting or high volume
shooting. While you may have a different hobby, many of us like this one.
As long as the constitution gives us the right to keep and bear arms we
will do so. If we take them all away then the only ones that have them
will be the criminals. When we continue to reduce our police forces they
will be even more delayed responding to your 911 call. I will bet when the
criminal kicks in your front door wielding a weapon you will wish you had
something to shoot him with or be damned happy if you have a neighbor like
me that would come to your rescue with firepower.
The great thing about this nation is we all have the right to have and
voice our opinion. To date I have been willing to die for your rights for
28 years and God willing will make a couple more, but I would really
appreciate it if you would not tell me I should only have my weapon of
choice when you need me to go somewhere else, again, to continue to
preserve the “freedoms” so many in the country take for granted.

Sent from Blackberry

Semper Fidelis

SgtMaj Ken Warren

Eduardo Lyon • As the SgtMaj stated, some people like to collect things.

I have a friend, (a civilian Aerospace professional) who among other weapons, has a Winchester Model 94 (30-30) modified for fast shooting. He can unload this lever action (5 shots) in under 3 seconds into a 2 inch bullseye at 25 yards.

“Assault rifles” (with the exception of weapons in those states that allow SPECIALLY LICENSED INDIVIDUALS to own full auto versions), as available to the public, are all semi auto. The only difference between these “horrible assault rifles” and large caliber hunting rifles is usually magazine capacity and their military appearance.

Are we now going to ban hunting rifles, too? Because I know some folks who can reload a hunting rifle awfully quick…

Take a scoped Remmington 700 chambered in 30-06 and I would put that up against an M-16 on the rifle range anyday. Will we now ban 30-06 ammo too?

It’s not the weapon – it’s the guy behind the trigger.

Frank Hibbard • Sgt. Major Warren

I truly have too much respect for you and all who serve, but freedom of speech and thought is what I signed up for back in 1979. I will always think that only the military and law enforcement should have these weapons, and it is the safety of all of us that makes me feel this way. I truly enjoyed shooting the M-16, most of all on automatic, but that was in a controled enviorment, and while I was in uniform.

A major concern of mine is that the Police officers will run into the wrong people with these weapons, and being grossly unarmed they will not have a chance. I lived near Camden,NJ which was voted the most dangerous city in the country a couple of years back, and our EINSTEIN Governor decided to cut the police force by 150 plus officers to save damn money. Now I truly worry for the remaining officers, not to mention all the people who live in Camden,could easily be cut down by gangs who have these weapons already, not to mention the ones that they can still leagaly purchase.

One last thought Sgt.Maj. THANK YOU! for sticking it out for 28 years, my ass was lucky enough to never see combat,and I think you all are truly great people for serving since 9-11, and I wish you all well. Oh by the way I LOVE TO ARGUE! and I truly believe in Freedom, just as long as people do not get hurt.

Ken Warren • Amen Eduardo. It is never the weapons fault that some idiot decided to use
it against innocent people. Many of these types of incidents have been
perpetrated by assailants with a bag full of handguns and no assault
rifles. People need to understand criminals will always find a way to
purchase the tools of their trade. It is only those of us that purchase
these weapons legally that truly pay the big price. Good discussion all.
I have said enough.
Semper Fidelis.

Sent from Blackberry

Semper Fidelis

SgtMaj Ken Warren

Frank Hibbard • Semper Fidelis SgtMaj.

Still do not agree, but that is what Americia is all about!

Carl Russell • NRA sponsored firearm should be reintroduced into High Schools to educate and promote citizenry in their community instead of job corps. High Schoolers are not going to sit idle like sheep in a movie theatre and think if only I were taught the use of a fire arm by my parents or teachers. Teachers afraid of losing their tenure should sign up to teach these classes instead of home economics. I’m sure the federal funds for job corps or drug awareness can be redirected to funding a firearm class in each public school.

Ronnie Ingram • I agree with you Sgt MAJOR. My point was that no law can ever protect us 100%. But overzealous restrictions can make us more vulnerable.

Steven Hawkins • @Frank, “Please tell me why anybody needs a 8-10 assault rifles, let alone 1? ”

Why not?
What is it about an “assault” rifle that makes it deserving of special regulation?
It is chambered the same as many “non-assault” riflies. Is it the shorter barrel, the flash supressor? No, it is simply because they are scary.

The right to keep and bear arms, unless they are scary?

Who needs a 44 ounce fountain soda, who needs $80k Corvette? I do! Now leave me the hell alone. [/hyperbole]

Frank Hibbard • Steven,

Good luck with the 44 ounce fountain soda and the MUCH needed 80k Corvette, but if I am ever given the option to vote against a ban on Assault rifles I will. If we stop selling them legaly,they will stop getting in the wrong hands.

As far as leaving you the hell alone, THIS IS A FREE COUNTRY! and we all signed up to potentily die for that freedom, I saw as dissucion that I feel strongly about, so I decided to express my opion. That is called FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!!

Ronnie Ingram • Steven I do not think anyone really needs an assault weapon, but for those that have them I think it would be hard to approve of anyone taking them away from them since 9999.9% are used responsibly and legaly. But in response to the discussion question my point was that even in states that have a large majority of armed citizens even they would be vulnerable to the acts of a psycho in some areas . I think most us have to concede that psycho’s and criminal do not follow laws. The question for our lawmakers would be how can we limit pyschos and criminals asssess to weapons without infringing on the rights of legal and responsible gun owners. Its may not be possible to do one without harming the other, but the question asks for ideas that could have prevented the Colorado incident. The answer could be not a darn thing.

Steven Hawkins • @Frank “If we stop selling them legaly,they will stop getting in the wrong hands. ”

Is a demonstrably false statement. By your definition what is an Assault Rifle? If you go by the criteria in the Clinton AWB, the characteristics are arbitrary and completely cosmetic. The point is that you can get versions of “sporting” or hunting rifles, that would not be covered by AWB, that have the same functionality as an “assault” rifle.

Steven Hawkins • Ronnie, there is not much to quibble with in your statement. There are existing laws that prevent the sale of firearms to person with mental health issues. But as we see in the Colorado incident, and Jared Loughner and Virginia Tech, the system doesn’t work if the people who make that assessment aren’t following through with their responsibilities.

Many of the places that you list as not allowing the carry of firearms (as opposed to can’t) is that they control entry. Government buildings and courthouses ensure that everybody is disarmed, not just the ones who follow the rules.

Ronnie Ingram • Good points Steven, But where do you see the next attack, did anyone foresee a movie theater, will the piggly wiggly be next, no one knows , thats why my point is there is no 100% way to stop these purely at random attacks, we cannot set up barriers everywhere (and there are no barriers in most churches) And as you stated there are things already in place that are not being used . I understand peoples concerns and fully support tightening some things up and enforcing current laws more strictly , but really in response to the discussion question , I just do not see how a weapon ban is the answer. The point is the shooter wanted mass casualties, if the assualt weapon was not available legally I believe he would have attained one illegally or threw in a pipe bomb, whatever he needed to achieve his goal of mass murder. This shooting was about killing innocent people not an endorsement of the assualt rifle.

Jonas Savage • # of automobile deaths in the US per annum: ~40,000

# of alcohol related deaths in the US per annum: ~75,000

# of obesity/”lifestyle” related deaths in the US per annum: ~112,000

# of tobacco related deaths in the US per annum: ~400,000

# of gun deaths in the US per annum: ~30,000 (including accidents and suicides)

The numbers speak for themselves, this is obviously a politicized argument over the perceived morality of owning a firearm. As has been stated several times on this post, the firearm is a tool that does not have inherent good or evil traits, it is the user of the tool that will decide how it is used.

Limiting the type of firearms that can be bought is treating a symptom of a larger problem rather than the cause. The problem being the access that crazy people and criminals have to firearms and the lack of appropriate consequences for people using them to engage in illegal activities. I for one am not ready to trade my freedoms for a false sense of security, but, I also do not necessarily mind waiting periods, or back ground checks.

Jonas Savage • Frank, I may not agree with what you have to say but I will defend to my death your right to say it.

Ken Warren • Well stated Jonas. I appreciate your intellectual approach and providing
bonafide numbers. From the ideas of some It looks like we will also have
to ban cars, alcohol, fast food and tobacco since they are all more
devastating the guns to our society.

Sent from Blackberry

Semper Fidelis

SgtMaj Ken Warren

Theodore (Ted) M. Hallock • I agree with Ken Warren in that criminals will always find a way to obtain guns or whatever else they need to continue their life of crime.

I would like to see the movie and TV industry curtail the amount of violence that is common place on TV and at the movies. A trailer for the Batman movie showed four gangsters bursting through the movie screen and shooting at the movie audience. I understand that this trailer has been pulled.

Semper Fi.

Frank Hibbard • Jonas,

Thanks for your input, and I still wish I could agree with you all, but it seems to me that if these weapons were not sold legaly, criminals would have a much tougher time getting weapons at all.

I watch too much news, and today on CNN they said that The USA has more weapons per person than any other country in the world. I remember seeing a report about gun shows, and the dealers were taped selling to just about anybody with money, without a background check. That is just one way how the damn criminals are getting guns.

I live in Southern New Jersey, and there is a assault weapon ban, and I do not even think we have guns stores anymore, but Camden, Trenton and all the North Jersey Cities have high murder rates. Just last night 2 more men were shot to death in Camden.

Cory Steiner • I used to live near Camden, NJ and couldn’t take being surrounded by those who don’t understand the basic foundational building block of freedom.
As a Camden County, NJ resident you’re good.

Here’s my final word…It’s all about repect…Respect for the firearm…respect for each other!

Here’s the outtake…

 
 
Al Bagocius
The A & I Consulting Group
Creative Packaging Solutions
9838 Old Baymeadows Road # 387
Jacksonville, FL 32256
Voice Mail: 904.553.9539
www.aicreativepackaging.com
e-mail @ bagociusar@aol.com
LinkedIn @ www.linkedin.com/in/albagocius
blog @ https://albagocius.wordpress.com
“We Package Your Message!”
 
Al Bagocius 
 


2 Responses to “A frank discussion about firearms from U.S. Marines”

  1. 1 Gene Perez

    Why did the founding fathers feel it so important to include the second amendment at all? They had experience with having to defend themselves against the oppressive government from which they then declared independence.

    Why was the right to bear arms so important that it was included immediately after the right to protected political speech? The right to defend yourself is that important.

    Does anyone have a better solution to a bad guy with a gun than a good guy with a gun? I’ll listen, but I’ve never heard a better solution.

    For the first time in my nearly 67 years of life I fear the federal government. I want to be able to protect myself from the government as well as from the criminals.


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